http://susannahill.blogspot.com/
http://www.susannahill.com/HOME.htmlhttp://www.susannahill.com/bio.htmlhttp://www.susannahill.com/books.htmlhttp://www.susannahill.com/teachers.htmlhttp://www.susannahill.com/links.htmlhttp://www.susannahill.com/contact.htmlhttp://susannahill.blogspot.com/http://www.susannahill.com/news.htmlhttp://www.susannahill.com/CRITIQUE_SERVICE.htmlhttp://www.susannahill.com/MAKING_PICTURE_BOOK_MAGIC.html
http://susannahill.blogspot.com/p/would-you-read-it.htmlhttp://susannahill.blogspot.com/p/summer-short-and-sweets.htmlhttp://susannahill.blogspot.com/p/oh-susanna.html

August 14, 2013

Would You Read It Wednesday #100!!! - The Golden Egg (PB) PLUS Straight From The Editor

Holy Hundredth Would You Read It, Batman!

Can you believe it?

Today marks the 100th week!  The 100th brave person to post their pitch!  The 100th Wednesday of Wonderfulness when we all get to learn so much from each other!

Who would have thought we'd get to 100 back on July 27, 2011 when we had our very first pitch?

So I think we should celebrate.  As always, Something Chocolate shall be involved (with many many thanks to the awesome and wonderful Coleen for making this for us today - and while I'm mentioning Coleen you should go read her blog if you don't already because she is tons of fun :))
This, my friends, is a Brookie - a Brownie Cookie - pretty much the best of both worlds, don'tcha think?
Photo copyright Coleen Patrick 2013 used by permission
Doesn't that look delicious???  Help yourself to a cup of coffee or a nice cold glass of milk to go with it! :)

But wait!  There's more!


Because the 100th day of anything doesn't come around all that often, I think I will give away a prize to one lucky randomly selected commenter from today's post!  Just because I love you and my blog would be nothing without all you wonderful people who come to read and comment and share your love of kidlit.

Hmmm.... what should the prize be, I wonder?

Well, you can never really have enough picture books, can you? :)  If you're a parent or a teacher they come in super handy.  If you're a writer, you can learn so much from how a good one is written.  So how about the prize shall be the winner's choice of Is Your Buffalo Ready For Kindergarten by Audrey Vernick (perfect for this time of year), I Haiku You by Betsy Snyder (perfect for poetry lovers), Journey by Aaron Becker (perfect for art lovers), America's Champion Swimmer: Gertrude Ederle by David A. Adler (perfect for nonfiction lovers), or, if you already have all 4 of those, something else that we pick together!

Now, just quickly before we get to today's pitch, I have a Straight From The Editor for you.  You will recall that Andrea won the June pitch pick with her pitch for The Backpack Secret (PB).  This was her pitch:

On the first day of kindergarten, Amani notices that Mason won’t take off his backpack. She’s determined to find out why, especially when the other kids start calling him names. After she finally convinces Mason to share his secret, it gives her an idea that will help everyone in the class feel braver at school.

And this response from editor Erin Molta is almost a first (it certainly doesn't happen often!):

I like this and can’t think of anything to make it more appealing. It states the problem succinctly and resolves it satisfactorily while intriguing an editor to want to find out what’s inside that backpack.

Wow!  Good for you, Andrea!  Well done!  (And maybe you'd better send that story our on submission soon :))

Straight From The Editor reminds me that I don't think we've done the July Pitch Pick, so maybe I'll put that up on Friday.

Now then, today's pitch comes to us from Lisa, whom you may remember from last month with her pitch for That Tommy Thompson.  Lisa says, "I'm a former elementary school social worker, mom of two, and have recently made writing my full time job.  Two years ago I wrote my first picture book and just this past fall I  decided it wasn't going to do any good sitting on my computer. I began taking classes, reading craft books, attending conferences and workshops and just writing, everyday, writing.   The original story is long gone but at last count I've got 42 other drafts and ideas jotted down.  Oh yeah, and about four or five ready to go manuscripts. I have worked with kids my entire adult life and I feel strongly that this is the avenue in which I am meant to reach those little hearts and minds at this time in my life.  On a random note, I'm a big fan of chocolate covered gummy bears. ;)"

Here is her pitch:

Working Title: The Golden Egg
Age/Genre: Picture Book (ages 5-8)
The Pitch: The sight of a golden egg creates quite a stir among the feathered community and the fact that it doesn't hatch has the Whisperers working overtime.  But have no fear, the Eggsperts are called in to save the day. But do they?  In the end,  Mother Hen knows she must listen to her heart.   Through a humorous story, lies a nurturing tale about a mothers love, acceptance and healing.

So what do you think?  Would You Read It?  YES, MAYBE or NO?

If your answer is YES, please feel free to tell us what you particularly liked and why the pitch piqued your interest.  If your answer is MAYBE or NO, please feel free to tell us what you think could be better in the spirit of helping Lisa improve her pitch.  Helpful examples of possible alternate wordings are welcome.  (However, I must ask that comments be constructive and respectful.  I reserve the right not to publish comments that are mean because that is not what this is about.)

Please send YOUR pitches for the coming weeks!  For rules and where to submit, click on this link Would You Read It or on the Would You Read It tab in the bar above.  There are openings in September which is alarmingly close, so please send your pitch in right away for your chance to be read by editor Erin Molta!

Lisa is looking forward to your thoughts on her pitch!  I am looking forward to seeing how my freshly updated website and blog turn out.  The marvelous Donna Farrell is hard at work trying to update, freshen, and streamline my blog and website with only the barest, minimal, cryptic information from me - such comments as, "Can you make it so it does that thing like, you know?" - very specific, detailed instructions :)  Good luck, Donna :)  But she's a genius so I know it will turn out exactly how I want it!

Have a wonderful Wednesday, everyone!  And don't forget, one lucky commenter today will win a prize! :)  Thank you all for your devoted readership!  It makes me happy to be part of this warm-hearted, generous community!


79 comments:

  1. Congrats on 100 and awesome giveaway! Way to go Andrea too!
    Great pitch, I would just take out the last line.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Woohoo...Susanna! 100th on a fine and popular tradition...how wonderful!


    Looove that Brookie! Recipe? Hint, hint... ;)


    Congratulations to Andrea! That's quite the accomplishment.


    I'm a sucker for anything chicken related, so I would read this story. I agree with Catherine that the last line can be taken out (if it isn't, it needs some fixing...extra comma, lack of apostrophe). Also, when I hear/see the word "whisperer" now, I think of people who can communicate well with another species (e.g. horse whisperer), so I would suggest changing "Whisperers" to "Gossipers."

    ReplyDelete
  3. Yay for making it to pitch 100! That is quite the milestone. And two thumbs up for Andrea. I agree, get that pitch out on submissions ASAP!

    As for today's pitch, I would read it but I was a little confused because I wasn't sure if the golden egg just happened to be alone or if it belonged to Mother Hen due to the mention of Mother Hen listening to her heart. Otherwise, it sounds really adorable.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Centratulations, Susanna! I've obviously missed too many!
    And to Andrea, that's wonderful. Now, hurry up and sub!
    I have to agree with Catherine about the last line too, and I would try to tighten it just a wee bit more, possibly even cutting the first three words. Best of luck, Lisa!

    ReplyDelete
  5. This_Kid_Reviews_Books_ErikAugust 14, 2013 at 9:13 AM

    I would like "Is Your Buffalo Ready for Kindergarten?" if I win. It sounds really good. :)


    I would read the book and love it! I am wondering what the "Whisperers" are tough. Good luck! :)

    ReplyDelete
  6. Congratulations Susanna. That is awesome. Happy 100!


    Hi Lisa, wow 42 MS, that is great. As for this story my answer is a maybe. While I like humorous chicken stories, I am not exactly sure what this story is about. I actually thought the story was about a chicken miscarriage. Okay just re-read and realized it's a golden egg so it won't hatch obviously. Does Mother Hen treat the egg as if it were a real one? Not sure where the healing part comes into play. I am curious about the story as I do love your voice with words like Eggspert and Whisperers, just a bit confused.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Congratulations Susanna! That's great for you and for us!
    I would read the book, although I am a bit confused with the reference to the golden egg. It made me think of the goose that laid the golden egg and I wondered why Mother Hen would follow her heart. But I'm curious enough to want to know why. I agree with the others about taking out the last line. Love the "Whisperers" and "Eggsperts." Good luck, Lisa! Pat

    ReplyDelete
  8. 100!!!! Confetti and balloons and streamers and horseshoes! (We have to play horseshoes because of "pitch"!!!)

    Congrats to Andrea for such a wonderful pitch in June! Awesome!

    The pitch had me going with the first sentence, so I would read it for sure. I would tighten some. I am thinking the Eggsperts and the Whisperers are one in the same? If I'm wrong ignore me :-) If they are one in the same, I think you should combine the two sentences. Are they Eggspert Whispers? (I love both of those words for your story, by the way!) Right now it sounds like they are two different groups. And I agree with Catherine and others to delete the last sentence.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Sounds cute! Kind of a spin on the goose that lays golden eggs. :) I would read it, I like chicken stories. My first thought is perhaps you are introducing too many characters all at once? I was watching Live Pitch critiques on WriteOnCon yesterday and the first one they mentioned this being confusing. (http://writeoncon.com/08/13/live-event-can-you-handle-the-truth-google-hangout-with-suzie-townsend-and-kathleen-ortiz/) I'm wondering if kids could relate to a mother worrying about her egg hatching? I only say that because I have a chicken story where the chicken is trying to lay an egg for the farmer and got this from an agent " the premise to be more
    relatable to adults than to children." :D Best of luck!



    Happy 100th Would You Read It Wednesday Susanna! :D

    ReplyDelete
  10. 100 pitches - wow! congrats. And chocolate-covered gummi bears? really? I must get with progress, here....
    The pitch - I love that it's a hen, and that there are "whisperers" and "eggsperts". Sounds just like my small town.
    Could it be the neighbors seeing this golden egg and gossiping? Next thing you know they're calling in snarky comments to the reader's column and penning letters to the editor (quill pens, of course) - and who calls in the eggsperts? I think mama hen has to save the day, not the eggsperts - who will prolly end up with egg on their faces.

    ReplyDelete
  11. You have to try the gummy bears! Mama's always save the day! Thanks for the comments!

    ReplyDelete
  12. Thank you for the feedback. I will check out the article. I'm hoping it is a story that kids and adults can take away some lessons from. The golden egg has a few siblings that keep things interesting as well!

    ReplyDelete
  13. The last sentence is out! I agree. Thanks for the feedback!

    ReplyDelete
  14. Thank you! I like the Whisperers and Eggsperts too!

    ReplyDelete
  15. Ha, well only 5 or 6 completed MS. The rest are notes, ideas and partials but I always have something to work! Thank you for the feedback.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Thank you for the support! Can't wait for it to be published and then you can read all about the Whisperers ;)

    ReplyDelete
  17. Last line is gone! I thought about deleting it last night but got so tired after just doing the Komen 3 day I didn't even have energy for delete. ;) Thank you for the feedback!

    ReplyDelete
  18. Hi Susanna!
    Looks like you folks are having a good time over here, so I thought I would pop in :)
    I would read it. I'm intrigued by the golden egg and what all the whispers are about.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Thank you for the feedback. I will think about how to make that more clear!

    ReplyDelete
  20. I never thought about that with the Whisperers. Something I will have to consider. Thanks for the feedback!

    ReplyDelete
  21. I agree. Last line is gone. Thanks for the comment!

    ReplyDelete
  22. The muffin is perfect, Susanna! Thanks for always providing us with a little visual taste of paradise.:) And your blog site is already awesome...excited to see what the changes will be.


    Congrats to Andrea...I loved the Backpack story...glad that the pitch is considered 'ready-to-go'...I agree, send that baby out, Andrea.:)


    I love the story about the Golden Egg...Lisa, I would definitely read it! Perhaps you could condense the last part:


    The barnyard is all a-flutter and feathers are flying when the Eggsperts are called in and advise (one or two examples of what they think should be done), but in the end, Mother Hen knows she must listen to her heart.


    Susanna, thank you so much for always providing this platform for aspiring writers...you are a very special lady.:)

    ReplyDelete
  23. I like the pitch a lot. It grabs my attention and I like your play on words. I'm not sure I'd use the last sentence in the pitch. Sounds more like an opening first paragraph about the length of your book along with a comment summarizes the book -- which the last sentence does. I like the use of whisperers.
    Congratulations Andrea on the feedback.

    ReplyDelete
  24. It's a video! And basically they just say to be careful introducing to much/too many characters at once, so it might not be worth your time! ;) The pitches were all YA, but you might get some info of value. Danielle Smith is talking pitches live right now, might be more beneficial! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8tmOr2khus
    And sounds like you've thought about whether it's kid relatable. Sounds like you're in good shape. :D

    ReplyDelete
  25. I'm with Patricia on the last line. Good luck to Lisa on the pitch, Andrea on her feedback. Susanna on the website and ... oh I want that cookie Brownie Coleen. Yummy.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Yup. I agree with the others. Perfect pitch except for the unnecessary last line. Congrats on reaching 100, Susanna!

    ReplyDelete
  27. Umm, *drools*. That Brookie looks 'to die for'! Yumm! I really liked this pitch, and would definitely read the book. I do agree with Patricia about the last line. It felt so adult. And I thought the line before it ended the pitch nicely.
    Best of luck with the book and your new career, Lisa!

    ReplyDelete
  28. Woo hoo! 100 Would You Read it Wednesdays! Congratulations!


    I see we are all in agreement that the last sentence should be eliminated. The humor is obvious in the wordplay and the premise. I think the pitch works eggcellently up to the last line. Great job, Lisa! I really look forward to reading the story!


    P.S. Sorry I have been such a stranger, Susanna, but I had really lousy internet service in Maine. Sites just would not load on my iphone, or they'd load for a but then the service would disappear. Frustrating- but on the flip side , it's good to unplug sometimes :-) Missed you!

    ReplyDelete
  29. Michelle Heidenrich BarnesAugust 14, 2013 at 2:10 PM

    Happy 100! The brookie seems a worthy celebration dessert. (YUM) As for the pitch, yes, I would read the PB, though I agree the last line is not needed. I would also delete the first three words of your first sentence.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Woo Hoo!!! Way to go, Andra. That is great news about your Backpack Pitch.

    Happy 100th Pitch Pick, Susanna. Time flies when we're eating chocolate.


    We started the celebration early by capping off our evening (last night) with ice cream ~> toasted waffle, spread with Nutella, topped with vanilla Haagen Daz, strawberries, and bananas!



    Yes . . . it's GOOD! Sinfully so.

    ReplyDelete
  31. 100 pitches! That's great, and a yummy brownie cookie to boot! Congrats, Andrea, on that great feedback.
    As for the pitch, I like it, but my initial reaction is that it's too long. A quick glance at others' comments seems like that's already been said, and how to fix it. Nice job!

    ReplyDelete
  32. Thanks for the congrats, Catherine - you're very sweet! - and thanks also for your comments for Lisa!


























    Settings

    ReplyDelete
  33. Thanks, Teresa! We will have to ask Coleen for her recipe! Oh, Colee-een.....! Thanks for your comments for Lisa. I have to say, I love the idea of a chicken whisperer, now that you've suggested it :)

    ReplyDelete
  34. Thank YOU for being such a devoted Would You Read It participant, Angela! And thanks for your thoughts for Lisa!

    ReplyDelete
  35. Thank you for the feedback!

    ReplyDelete
  36. I agree. Thank you!

    ReplyDelete
  37. Perfect! Thank you so much!

    ReplyDelete
  38. Thanks, Julie! Many of the old WYRIs are archived for your browsing convenience under the WYRI tab above, but then I got very busy and fell behind with updating so you will notice I haven't done it since about January :) Something else to add to my to-do list :) Thanks for your helpful suggestions for Lisa!

    ReplyDelete
  39. Thanks so much for your comments for Ms. Bertellotti, Erik! And your preference is duly noted. Really, with a title like that it has to be good! :)

    ReplyDelete
  40. You always give such detailed and thoughtful feedback. Thank you! (And you are right about Susanna :)

    ReplyDelete
  41. Thanks for the congrats, Darshana, but they are really for all of you guys for pitching and commenting and helping each other so much! Thank you for your thought-provoking comments for Lisa, too - I'm sure she'll find them helpful!

    ReplyDelete
  42. Thanks for the congrats, Pat! Although as I said to Darshana, they really belong to all of you :) And thanks for your helpful thoughts for Lisa.

    ReplyDelete
  43. Oh Penny! Thank you for bringing the confetti and balloons and streamers, and you are right! Horseshoes would be perfect! Andrea certainly did do a good job on her pitch! And thank you so much for your helpful comments for Lisa!

    ReplyDelete
  44. I sat down to a cup of hot coffee...but I'm waiting for the Brownie Cookie to be delivered! It definitely looks yummy!

    I read very quickly and it took me a couple of reads before I understood the pitch. The first sentence seemed a bit wordy...and I would definitely omit the last line. "She must listen to her heart" is the perfect ending to the pitch.

    ReplyDelete
  45. That is great feedback to know about from the agent, Meg! Thanks for sharing! And thanks for your helpful comments for Lisa. And thank you for wishing me Happy 100th :)

    ReplyDelete
  46. Sue, you made me laugh out loud with your "egg on their face" comment :) Thanks so much for your thoughts for Lisa, and for the congrats. I am personally not a gummi fan, but I think the chocolate covering could convert me :)



























    Settings

    ReplyDelete
  47. Well, we do try to have a good time over here, Kathy - it is good to have fun! - and now that you're here our good time will be even better! :) Thanks for your 2 cents for Lisa :)

    ReplyDelete
  48. I'm so glad you enjoyed the Brookie, Vivian! We have the lovely Coleen to thank for that :) Thanks for your very helpful suggestions for Lisa, and thank you so much for your very kind words - you're too kind - it's all of you who make this place special :)

    ReplyDelete
  49. Thanks so much for your congrats for Andrea and your comments for Lisa, Pat! Very helpful!


























    Settings

    ReplyDelete
  50. Thanks for your thoughts for Lisa, Stacy! And glad you enjoyed the Brookie - apparently we are needing that recipe!!! As for the blog/website, it won't be anything dramatic. I'm keeping the same general appearance, just hoping to organize, declutter, streamline... all those things I'm not good at :)

    ReplyDelete
  51. Thanks so much for your 2 cents for Lisa, Rosi! And the 100 is all due to you guys! :)



























    Settings

    ReplyDelete
  52. Coleen will be glad to know she made you drool, Janet :) Thanks so much for your comments for Lisa! :)


























    Settings

    ReplyDelete
  53. Hmmm. it took a bit to decipher the story but here are my thoughts:


    Working Title: The Golden Egg
    Age/Genre: Picture Book (ages 5-8)
    The Pitch: Mother Hen has laid a golden egg, but why doesn’t it hatch? Her feathered friends are all a-cluck and call in the Eggsperts to help. Does Mother Hen listen to her friends or her heart?



    Hope that helps

    ReplyDelete
  54. Hello, my friend! I'm glad to see you again and hope you had a wonderful time in Maine! I'm glad you got a chance to unplug - I really think we all need it! Thanks for your helpful thoughts for Lisa. And I saw you had a new post up but my internet's been down all day and I'm way behind. I'll be over as soon as I can!


























    Settings

    ReplyDelete
  55. Thanks so much for your very helpful comments for Lisa, Michelle, as well as for your Happy 100 wishes! I'm so glad you enjoyed the Brookie! I think we're all going to be needing that recipe :)

    ReplyDelete
  56. Gee whiz, Nancy! You made me drool on my keyboard! :) Thanks for your Happy 100 wishes and your congrats for Andrea :) Now I'm going to rummage in my kitchen and see if I have the fixin's for that sinfully delightful dessert :)



























    Settings

    ReplyDelete
  57. Thanks for the happy 100 wishes, Pam, and for your thoughts for Lisa - very helpful! :)

    ReplyDelete
  58. Hello and welcome, Delighted! I'm so glad you stopped by! I would love to be able to deliver the Brookies - I'll get Coleen on the case :) Thanks for your comments for Lisa - I am sure she will find them helpful coming from a first grade expert like you!

    ReplyDelete
  59. Thanks so much for chiming in with your helpful suggestions for Lisa, Linda! :)



























    Settings

    ReplyDelete
  60. Lisa, it's wonderful to have a fellow sociologist in the writing community! I got my degree in sociology. I loved your pitch. It's quirky and fun and makes me want to read your book.

    Susanna, that cupcake brownie just made my mouth water. I must have chocolate soon!

    ReplyDelete
  61. Congrats on reaching the 100th WYRI, Susanna. That's such an achievement!

    In terms of the pitch, it sounds like a lovely story. I like Linda Benson's suggestions below on how to refine it. :-)

    ReplyDelete
  62. Thanks for the encouragement, everyone. I was delighted with Erin's response to my pitch. I am definitely thinking of sending The Backpack Secret out on submission.
    Lisa, based on your pitch, I'd want to read the story. I actually liked the tone and concept in the first two sentences. But I agree that it's a little long and maybe not specific enough.
    I'd like a hint at how the Eggsperts will save the day. The part about Mother Hen seems too vague to me. Also, I'm wondering about the Whisperers and who they are and whether they have a big enough role in the story to be mentioned in the pitch? Just something to think about.

    ReplyDelete
  63. Glad you and Lisa have something in common, Heather. As for chocolate, there's no time like breakfast.... :)

    ReplyDelete
  64. Thanks, Cally! I so appreciate you being such a devoted reader and commenter on WYRI! Thanks for your comments for Lisa!

    ReplyDelete
  65. Congratulations again on your awesome pitch, Andrea! And thanks for your helpful insights for Lisa!


























    Settings

    ReplyDelete
  66. Yes to the pitch (an eggs-tra big yes?)--and Happy 100, Susanna! Yay!

    ReplyDelete
  67. Thank you, Coleen! And thank you again for the wonderful Brookie! Which we have had MANY requests for the recipe if you care to share :)

    ReplyDelete
  68. Happy 100th! Congrats, Andrea!

    Good job, Lisa. I like the enticingly humorous tone of your pitch. In my house, one cannot ignore a funny chicken story with puns!

    You might consider the following.

    Using "In the end" seems like you're telling us the ending and the use of a question doesn't necessarily create suspense, so why not combine these two?

    Will it be the Eggsperts or Mother Hen who saves the day? Blah, blah, blah the solution lies in listening to your heart.

    Y'know, something like that, but better.

    'Can't wait to see it in print!

    (Sorry this is late; my internet was down.)

    ReplyDelete
  69. Thanks, Joanne, for the Happy 100th, the congrats for Andrea, and your helpful suggestions for Lisa! No worries about the day - anytime is helpful. And my internet was down yesterday too. Terrible, isn't it? Puts you so behind!

    ReplyDelete
  70. So, Martha Stewart has a recipe...but I made Betty Crocker gluten free brownie mix and divided it into a 12 cup muffin tin and then dropped a ball of BC gf chocolate chip cookie mix dough on top. Then I baked it at 375 for about 20 min. :) Basically you can use your favorite brownie and cookie dough recipes/mixes. Easy!

    ReplyDelete
  71. I would read it! It piques my curiosity. I think the pitch might be stronger with a slight variation from what you have. After "But have no fear, the Eggsperts are called in to save the day." I would change it to something like: "But who knows better, them... or Mother Hen?" (Just an idea). Good luck!

    ReplyDelete
  72. Thanks, Coleen! I am always in favor of easy :)

    ReplyDelete
  73. Please let me know if Coleen shares! :) :)


    My older son is a bit of a chicken whisperer. A lot of kids we know whose families raise chickens are often really good with them too. What else is there for farm kids to do? LOL!

    ReplyDelete
  74. Talk to cute animals like horses? :) Coleen did post the recipe somewhere in the comments... If I find it I'll copy and paste, but have a go at scrolling through and maybe you'll find it before I get around to it...

    ReplyDelete
  75. Got it, thanks, Susanna! It's so simple a recipe too...well, I guess it's not that simple if you make the batters from scratch instead of using mixes. :}

    ReplyDelete
  76. I admit to using brownie mix, but I always make cookies from scratch. They're pretty much the only things I can cook :)

    ReplyDelete
  77. Wam! Bam! 100 pitches? Wow!
    This pitch certainly sounds interesting. With the Whisperers, the Eggsperts and Mother Hen it sounds like a YA dystopian novel! Consider whether all those characters are needed in the query.

    ReplyDelete
  78. Thanks so much for chiming in for Lisa, Lauri! :)

    ReplyDelete

I love to hear from you and try to respond to every comment. Please share your thoughts!

Related Posts Plugin for WordPress, Blogger...