Phyllis has been sighted in the Mojave Desert!!!
It's true! She made the first stop on her World Tour (really, something as incredible as a World Tour has to be capitalized :)) at Kirsten's house. Kirsten and her family gave Phyllis a warm welcome and showed her a truly amazing time, including some important firsts for her:
First Time Piloting An F-117 Night Hawk
First Time In A Joshua Tree
For a detailed post on Phyllis's first stop in California, hop on over to Kirsten's blog. (For those of you ahead of me in time zone, or any other early birds, if the link doesn't work right away it's because Kirsten is 3 hours behind me and her post may not be up yet, and I won't have a post-specific link until later today - but I will update the link, I promise!)
Phyllis is now on her way to Texas, where I hear Natalie has wonderful things in store for her visit. We will keep you posted. And by gum, I'd better get that extra tab up top pretty durn soon! *scribbles on very long to-do list!*
After all that excitement, you can probably barely concentrate on regular life, but let's give it a try. Most likely some chocolate would help, even though it's not Wednesday :)
Today's Oh Susanna question comes to us from Penny. She says:
"When I have searched the internet in search of agents, some sites point out that some agents are more editorial than others. What exactly does this mean? Will an agent actually make specific changes to your manuscript or will they give general feedback and have you make the changes?"
This question is both easy and hard to answer.
From the easy side: Yes. To both.
Some agents are quite "editorial". They read a MS and give very specific suggestions for change and improvement. I'm sure it is up to the author to actually make those changes, but they are quite specifically suggested in some cases, and the understanding is that without the changes the agent won't send the MS out.
Other agents are not editorial at all. They read a MS and say, "Yes, I'll send it out," or "No, this one doesn't work for me," end of conversation.
Still other agents fall somewhere in the middle. They may give a broader, less specific suggestion, for example, "Change the beginning," or, "It needs more emotional tension," or "Give me a better idea of who exactly Jenny is" but they don't give you suggestions as to how to achieve that, or any kind of specific details.
The harder side of the question is how to find out how "editorial" an agent is when you're looking and thinking about submitting to them, and what kind of agent/amount of editorializing works best for you, which you may not know until you've gotten a little further in to the publishing process.
Some writers want a lot of hand-holding. They like agents who will give them a lot of very specific feedback. Other writers can't bear to have someone else monkeying so much with their work. (Still others would never dream of having an agent at all, but that is a whole nother issue!)
Finding the right agent is about so many things - personality, taste, and amount of editorializing being some of the key questions you need to address. It's especially difficult because it's possible that the only agent offers you get might be from people whose style doesn't match yours. Then you have to think long and hard about what you really want.
For my part, I do have an agent. (As you can see in my sidebar - Liza Voges of Eden Street Lit :)) She has a lot of experience, an encyclopedic knowledge of the publishing world, and a keen sense for what works and what doesn't. I would rank her somewhere in between on the editorializing scale. If I send her a MS she thinks she can't sell, she'll just say so. If it doesn't work, she won't waste my time or hers trying to force the issue. If I send her a MS she thinks is really strong, she sends it out. If I send her one where she feels there's potential but I haven't pulled it off right, she'll give me a general comment like, "Try to write it more from the baby's POV" or "The end is too abrupt." Then it's up to me to figure out how to make changes that will make the MS work for her. Sometimes I can, and sometimes I can't.
No matter who your agent is, though, they won't (and shouldn't) do your job for you. It is up to you to give them only your very best work. Too many half-baked, sloppy MSS will find you looking for a new agent.
I know a number of people who read this blog have agents. It would be wonderful if you would share your thoughts and experiences in the comments for readers to learn from! If you can share your agent's name and how "editorial" she/he is, I'm sure that would be very helpful to people starting their search!
Others of you, what would you look for? Would you prefer a lot of editorializing or a little?
Great post, Susanna! I can't wait to see what others post about their agents or preferences. I do not have one, but am searching.ReplyDelete
Glad you like it, Jennifer. I'll be very interested to see what others add to the discussion too!ReplyDelete
Good to know! As an editor myself (not for kidlit, though), you might think that I would NOT want an editor/agent messing with my work - but it ain't so! As a writer, I crave input and would probably work best with an opinionated agent with a strong editorial bent. Thanks for the info, Susanna - I hadn't considered this side of agents!ReplyDelete
Glad you found it interesting, Renee! And I thank Penny for her excellent question :)ReplyDelete
Congrats Phyllis! I hope you have a nice trip!ReplyDelete
I learned a lot about agents today! I think I'd prefer a "medium" "editorial" agent.
I'm glad if you learned something, Erik! And Phyllis is already having a FANTASTIC trip! I can't wait to hear what she does in Texas :)ReplyDelete
Well, it's funny. I always thought of the term "editorial" agent" as more applicable for agents repping novels (YA, MG). I write only PBs, but I suppose my agent does give me specific comments about what is not working for her. I think she would argue that in today's publishing world, agents have no choice, but to be fairly editorial. She tells me all the time that "editors are always looking for reasons not to have to move forward with a manuscript aso we have to make sure we give them no space to even think about rejecting them."ReplyDelete
Thank you so much for sharing, Corey! That is a very good point - I think you're right that there may be more editorializing in MG and YA than there is in PBs.ReplyDelete
Like Renee I also crave input, so an editorial agent would probably be my preference.ReplyDelete
I love the photos Phyllis--looking forward to more stops along the tour!!
Thanks, Coleen! I am personally doing the antsy dance waiting for Kirsten's post to go up :)ReplyDelete
We were so happy to show Phyllis around. Thanks for sending her out to visit!ReplyDelete
She had a great time with you! You have set the bar high :)ReplyDelete
For me, if an agent is going to make a comment about my work, then it would be helpful it they give an example of how to improve it or maybe at least tell me specifically what is wrong...instead of just saying something like "change the ending"...I'm not saying hold my hand...just give me a clue as to what they are talking about...lolReplyDelete
I think that's why it's great that there are different kinds of authors and agents, Donna - hopefully we can all match up with people we for well with!ReplyDelete
Phyllis' World Tour was such a brilliant idea, Susanna!ReplyDelete
I also would prefer an editorial agent. I truly like input and concrete suggestions. I will be seeking a very hands-on agent when the time comes.. but hey, who knows!
I'm glad you like the idea of the tour, Joanna! You should probably check your mailbox along about the end of this week :)ReplyDelete
A hymn I wrote got published a long time ago. A little church in England sent me a tape of their singing it. It was quite sweet and I was delighted.... until -- I discovered they had changed a word. I finally let it go. (yeah, sure.ReplyDelete
To get back to the premise. I have an editorial editor so I'm hoping my agent will not go in that direction.
Thanks for sharing.
Like Renee, I also crave input. I love the editorial process, of having that extra set of eyes that can spot the rough spots right away, and I love the puzzle-solving process of revision. My agent doesn't edit my stories, but may make a suggestion or two. By the time I send her a manuscript I have worked very hard on it and it's as polished as I can make it. I've also worked with one publisher for most of my titles so they all know what to expect. That said, when I ventured into writing a memoir, I sent my agent the first four chapters of my first draft and then she had a lot to say! (and it wasn't all sweet to my ears.) I think agents do more editing for older books - perhaps middle grade, but more likely YA and adult. I will say this- an agent's role seems to have changed with the advent of social networking. I had an agent starting in 1990 who did only contracts. She may have offered a bit of editorial input, but after the book was sold, I didn't hear from her. My current agent is supportive and involved in promotion. She's very active on twitter, highlighting her authors. Recently we signed on with a new Press and she suggested a meeting with the publicity department to discuss a strategy for promoting my new book. Last week she went out for drinks after work with my senior editor to discuss possibilities for my book and to discuss new ones. Now THAT'S what you should really look for in an agent.ReplyDelete
I think I’d have to say that my agent is all of these types rolled into one. It depends on the manuscript, really. She might love something and send it out as is, she might make general suggestions such as the story needs more tension or a stronger narrative arc, or she might go through a manuscript and write very specific notes. The main objective is, of course, having a strong manuscript that she believes we can sell. Each specific story has its own route. And yes, sometimes my agent says no (in a very nice way), that she can’t send a manuscript out, and that’s okay. It’s a judgment call on what she thinks she can sell for us right now, in this market. Discussions on salability, revisions, and give and take are all part of the process.ReplyDelete
YEAH for Phyllis! Brilliant idea. Wish I could respond to the question today, but I don't have an agent. Enjoyed the various comments.ReplyDelete
I think I would also prefer an agent who offers editorial input. Anything that will make my writing stronger is completely welcomed, in my opinion :) Phyllis has not arrived yet, as our mail arrives --but I will let you know when Phyllis has landed! :) We are ready to show her the town tomorrow.ReplyDelete
At this stage, I need editorial input. Excited to read about and see Phyllis' adventures.ReplyDelete
Thank you so much for sharing all that helpful info, Iza! Of course, now everyone is going to want your agent :)ReplyDelete
I just ordered your book from Scholastic. :) Does that suck for you that I bought it from them when its discounted? I was meaning it to be supportive! And I can't wait to get it!!ReplyDelete
Thank you so much, Heather! That is very helpful to know!ReplyDelete
Glad you like the idea, Pat! And I think the comments have been very illuminating!ReplyDelete
She is very excited, and we are all waiting eagerly to see what her next adventure will be! :)ReplyDelete
Me, too, Stacy!! :)ReplyDelete
Laura, I am thrilled and touched if you buy it in any way, shape or form. I truly appreciate the support. I wish I had thought to ask you to get ME one and mail it to me - I still haven't gotten my copies and I don't have anyone in that age group anymore. I really want to see how it cam out, and I want to hear the audio recording!!!ReplyDelete
It's hard to have your work misquoted, misread, misunderstood, or mis-sung! And yes, maybe too many editors would spoil the ms :)ReplyDelete
Thank you once again for the Oh Susanna! I am learning so much. Also, I love the conversation that is started as a result!ReplyDelete
I would love to be at a point where I needed an agent. But, I know I would enjoy an editor that would give me helpful feedback.
Phyllis has landed! :)ReplyDelete
Natalie (unregistered) wrote, in response to Susanna Leonard Hill:
Phyllis has landed! :)
Link to comment
Looks like Phyllis was having a blast with Kirsten's family. Looking forward to hearing more about the trip :)ReplyDelete
I found your 'Oh, Susanna" advice very helpful as always. If I ever get an agent I would like the editiorial advice.
Great post. I have an agent and I would definitely say she's of the "editorial" variety and man am I glad to have her. She is fantastic. I love her input. On the filp side of that though - as a writer it really, REALLY helps if you are able to take on board criticism without getting offended. And thank heck, I am. (-: So it works.ReplyDelete
Good point, Ado! The criticism part is always hard. But I think I'd rather have it from an agent, do the work, and then sell the ms to an editor, then have an editor turn it down because no one had told me it wasn't ready.ReplyDelete
Me either, Jen - apparently all kinds of wild things are in store :)ReplyDelete
Glad you found the agent discussion helpful!
I'm so glad if it's helpful, Eric! And with 12x12, needing an agent may not be too far away :)ReplyDelete
Susanna~Thanks for the comprehensive answer to my question. I think I would prefer an editorial agent who would give a few details to work with along with general comments. I have really enjoyed all the comments from those of you who already have an agent. It's interesting to get input as I continue my search for an agent.ReplyDelete
Kirsten~I'm sure Phyllis hated to leave! What fun for you and your boys :•) Your post was wonderful.
I would love to have an editorial agent. The main thing you want is an agent who shares your vision. Without that, you're only going to be frustrated in the end.ReplyDelete
Penny, thanks for the great question and thanks Susanna for the helpful answer. I'm loving Phyllis's world tour already. Can't wait to see all the fun places she "pops up."ReplyDelete
Well, having mastered the ability to be in more than one place at the same time - something I've been trying to do for years! :) - she is currently in both TX and GA. I am eagerly awaiting updates! :) I hope she's behaving her marmot-y little self :)ReplyDelete
Good point, Stina. And it can be a little hard to tell that at the outset.ReplyDelete
I'm so glad if we have all helped answer you question, Penny. Good luck with your search! And yes, Phyllis did hate to leave, but she has photographs and memories :) And she's excited to see what awaits her in TX... and GA... and FL... :)ReplyDelete
I have loved all the comments both about Phyllis and about agents.ReplyDelete
I had an editor take out all the repetitive lines in my soon to be published PB "Annie's Special Day." She didn't see the use of them. It hurt me to take them out but as it was I felt like she knew best.
If I ever get an agent for other works, I hope I get the editorial kind where they tell you what works and what doesn't and give you an idea of how to fix it. Usually at that point I have given my best and don't know how else to make it better so any suggestion is welcome.
Thanks Penny and Susanna for a very informative post!
Glad you found the post useful, Clar. I'm interested because almost everyone has said they would like editorial feedback - I guess we don't have many of the independent-don't-tell-me-what-to-do types reading this blog :)ReplyDelete
Good morning Susanna! When you find some time I left you a Sunshine Award today on my blog :)ReplyDelete
Thank you, Jen! You are so sweet! :)ReplyDelete
You have been nominated for the Kreatif and Sunshine awards. Please go to my blog
to pick them up. Congrats.
Thank you so much, Clar! I'm way ahead of you :) I've already read your post, left you a comment, and added my thanks to you in my lefthand side bar for the awards :) You are a gem! :)ReplyDelete
Holy Cow - 50 comments already! Sheesh...ReplyDelete
I used to live in the Mojave Desert! Joshua Trees and Night Hawks. Sweet!
As far as agents go, if it were on a scale from 1 to 10, 1 being pass/go and 10 being hand-holding, I guess I'd like somewhere in between, maybe a 7.
I just found out that my mom LOVES groundhogs! Imagine that. I told her I'd ask you to see if you know where I might could get one for her.
I don't traffik in live groundhogs :) (although I'm sure if your mom planted some strawberries she could lure some in :)) but my Phyllis is a Folkmanis puppet, and of course, there are always the books :)ReplyDelete
YAY for Phyllis! What a fun experience for her. I love it!ReplyDelete
And great info in the "oh-Susanna" series. This is good to know. There is always so much to learn through the publishing process. I love your insight.
Thanks, Leigh! I'm glad if you find it helpful! And if you want to jump in on the Phyllis tour let me know - I know you have a copy :)ReplyDelete
How exciting for Phyliss. Looks like she's having an amazing time!ReplyDelete
Also, thanks to Penny for asking this question and to you, Susanna, for providing the answer. Very informative! :-)
So glad if it was helpful, Cally! :)ReplyDelete